Bugs and Balancing for v1.2+ (updated)

By ntropy on May 31, 2009 9:47:43 AM from

Demigod Forums

ntropy

Join Date 12/2008

+12

Bugs and Balancing for v1.2+
Some suggestions were taken from innociv (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/348135)

Major Issues

- Crash to Desktop (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/363391/#2382319, https://forums.demigodthegame.com/355555)
- Sludge Slinger item not working properly (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/355120)
- Sound looping issue (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/356935, https://forums.demigodthegame.com/362752)
- Spells not casted because of reduced cooldowns (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/353955)
- Move order is canceled when using instant effects such as "Wand of Speed" (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/356694)
- Incorrect floating health bars (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/363499)
- Torchbearer fire-mode is lacking an auto attack while moving (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/363046)
- Game lobby: occupied player slots are not updated correctly (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/354788)
- UB Post Mortem Denies full Creep XP (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/365283) <- NEW
- Watching Replays Affects Offline Favor Points/Items/Achievements (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/365295) <- NEW
- Regulus maiming himself drinking potions (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/356238)
- Magical Coin Pouch favor (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/360521)
- Torchbearer closeup auto-attack bug (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/356449)
- Auto attack related bugs (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/356419)
- Erebus can commit suicide drinking his own poisoned potions (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/356363)
- Valor flag bug (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/357156, https://forums.demigodthegame.com/357271) [FIXED in 1.19]
- Interduce a cap for "slowing effects" to limit massive stacking (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/351504)
- Dropping mana giving item when MP are lower than the mana giving item will give you full MP [FIXED in 1.1]
- Fix idol resell exploit (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/351951) [FIXED in 1.1]
- Introduce a "concede" option to solve the "rage quitting" [FIXED in 1.1]
- Fix "priest citadell upgrade" by nerfing the experience and gold a DG gets for killing: 50->33xp, 33->15g (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/353405) [FIXED in 1.1]

Debatable Issues

- Armor rating going into negative (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/351592)
(Armor reduction debuffs should not effect buildings (QoT ground spikes current gives like a 250% damage bonus
because it puts buildings into negative. Is this intended?)
- Cooldown increase bug (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/347124)
- Health stealing is uneffected by armor mitigation of target (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/347124)
- Plattforming on maps like Crucible (Erebus), is an unfair advantage (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/351416)
- Torchbearer should respawn in the mode he died in

Minor Issues

- Unknown team in game report (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/363015)
- Pathing Issues with Oak (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/365264)
- Fix citadell death, so the game doesn't hang for 5-10 seconds [FIXED]
- Hungarling's Crown has a wrong tooltip (35% not 25%) [FIXED]
- Fix erebus poison pots giving suicidal gold award (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/356363) [FIXED]

Suggested Mods for integration by GPG
- Enables self casting of skills with Ctrl+# (http://trac.dgmod.com:8080/ticket/16) [by gunblob]

Pantheon Stat: custom

Erebus: 55% win (66k games)
Sedna: 53% wins (55k games)
UB: 53% wins (90k games)
Oak: 50% wins (64k games)
Regulus: 49% wins (93k games)
Rook: 46% wins (54k games)
Torch: 45% wins (62k games)
QoT: 44% wins (27k games) <-- needs fixing!

Items

- Consumables
--- [Hex Scroll] 500->300g
--- [Capture Lock] 250g->300g, Cooldown 45->60s

- Artifact Consumable
--- [Enhanced Health Potion] 1000->800g [DONE in 1.19]
--- [Enhanced Mana Potion] 1000->600g [DONE in 1.19]
--- [Revitalization Elixir] 1000->900g [DONE in 1.19]
--- [Supreme Health Potion] 1500->1200g [DONE in 1.19]
--- [Supreme Mana Potion] 1500->900g [DONE in 1.19]
--- [Supreme Revitalization Elixir] 1500->1350g [DONE in 1.19]

- Trinkets
--- [Forest Band] 200->400 minion armor
--- [Bloodstone Ring] 3->4% lifesteal, 400->450 hp
--- [Ring of the Ancients] 400->600 armor
--- [Parasite Egg] 5000->4000g, 30->20 wep damage, 10%->5% Attack Speed, Damage to Minions 100%
--- [Wand of Speed] 1250g->1750g [DONE in 1.19]
--- [Warlord's Punisher] 1.5->1s cast [DONE in 1.19]
--- [Twig of Life] 33%->50% restore, 100->150 minion life [DONE in 1.19]
--- [Heart of Life] cast time 0->3s, cooldown 30->60s (moved to artifact shop) [FIXED in 1.1]

- Armor
--- [Duelist's Cuirass] 1.5x->2x crit (with 500 dmg, 5% of 1.5 is only about 12.5 damage)
--- [Platemail of the Crusader] 1->3% to heal 300
--- [Groffling Warplate] 1->3% to get a shield of 500 if 10 seconds
--- [Godplate] 10000g->8500g, 1050->900 hp

- Helms
--- [Theurgist's Cap] 35->50% mana per second, ->10% chance to stop hp/mana regen per second for 7s
--- [Vinling Helmet] 3%->5%
--- [Hungarling's Crown] 6500->5200g (nobody I know buys this)

- Boots
--- [Footman's Sabatons] 600->450g
--- [Unbreakable Boots] 800->750 mana, 600->550 health (this item is a bit too good, I always get it!)
--- [Ironwalkers] 3750->2250g, 275->200 minion armor
--- [Desperate Boots] 5000->3750g
--- [Journeyman Treads] 6750->6500g, 400->500 health

- Gloves
--- [Gauntlets of Despair] 100->200 mana drain (15%) [FIXED in 1.19]
--- [Doomspite Grips] 6750->5000g, 30->40 damage

- Artifacts
--- [Heart of Life] 12000->8000g [suggested by pacov]
--- [Cloak of Flames] 800->1200 damage over 10 seconds, cooldown 30s
--- [Bracelet of Rage] 300->200 damage for 10s
--- [Unmaker] 15000->10000g, 20->0 damage, 20%->15% chance to increase attack speed, 15->10% minion attack speed
--- [Stormbringer] 17500->16000g
--- [Bulwark of the Ages] minon health per second 0->5
--- [Ashkandor] 18000->20000g, 4x->3x critical hit
--- [Deathbringer] 20000->18000g

- Favor
--- [Charm of Life] 10->40% death penalty time reduced
--- [Brilliant Bauble] 10->15% experience
--- [Symbol of Purity] 250->500 hp
--- [Diamond Pendant] 10%->15% ability cooldown, 250->400 mana [maybe OP]
--- [Saam-el's Cloak] can't reduce speed more then 25->15%
--- [Wings of the Seraphim]
--- [Blood of the Fallen] 800->700 hp (single most used favor item in game!!) [also suggested by Epiphenomenon]

- Favor (Assassin only)
--- [Blade of the Serpant] 75->40% of your damage in mana (this is too good because it includes spells also)
--- [Essence of Magic] 3->5s, cooldown 45->30s
--- [Furious Blade] 100->300 hp
--- [Heaven's Wrath] 45->60s cooldown

- Favor (Generals only)
--- [Tome of Endurance] 400->500 hp
--- [Blood Soaked Wand] 2->1s cast [maybe OP]
--- [Cloak of Night] 100->200 damage on warp

Demigods

Rook
- Structural Transfer: Rook get +500/1000/1500/2000 armor buff for 10s

Regulus
- Dead Eye: Snipe stuns enemy for 2s OR 3->5% to stun for 0.3->0.5s

Unclean Beast
- Foul Grasp I, 800->750 mana, 332->300 over 2s
- Foul Grasp II, 1100->1000 mana,
- Foul Grasp III, 1400->1250 mana, 664->700 over 2s (nobody skills II and III, mana cost is too high)

Torchbearer
- Deep Freeze I, 18->20yd range, 100->200 damage per effect consumed (the combos need alot more rewarding)
- Deep Freeze II, 18->20yd range, 175->275 damage per effect consumed
- Deep Freeze III, 250->350 damage per effect consumed
- Deep Freeze IV, 325->425 damage per effect consumed
- Fire and Ice, 100->175 damage to deep freeze

Oak
- Soul Power I, 20->15 dmg
- Soul Power III, 60->65 dmg (otherwise only I is ever skilled)
- Devine Justice I, 10->5%
- Devine Justice II, 15->10%
- Devine Justice III, 20->15% (otherwise only I is ever skilled)
- Rally, (= no one ever gets it)
- Shouln't be able to attack building in "Last Stand" mode (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/349854)

QoT
- Spike Wave I, 350->400 damage (this is not a stun, so more damage is ok)
- Spike Wave II, 500->550 damage
- Spike Wave III, 650->700 damage
- Compost I: +2 attack damage/+1 range per 3-unit killed (max of +6 damage, +3 range)
- Compost II: +5 attack damage/+1 range (max of +15 damage, +3 range)
- Compost III: +10 attack damage/+2 range (max of +30 damage, +6 range)
- Uproot I: 425 -> 300 mana
- Uproot II: 585 --> 500 mana
- Uproot III: 745 --> 700 mana
- Uproot IV: 905 --> 900 mana (make this Violent Siege, and make Violent Siege damage 100 hp/sec to nearby units).
- No LvL 15 Uproot.

Sedna
- Heal IV: Damage nearby targets for 200->400 damage
- Yetis: mana cost: 550/750/950/1150->400/600/800/1000
- Yetis: AoE damage (chance) + high movement speed
- Yetis (Wild Swings) have a 20% chance to do 2x damage!

Feedback welcome...

Comments to the answers
hot topics are marked in red

#1(ferm1nc)
If you face a minion using general you will most likely be annilated before you even have 5000g, because he will constantly harass you with the minions. This will occupy you and the general will out level you and. I've seen this alot. Certain DGs can easily deal with minions, using powerful AoE spell, other however cant. Another possible solution would be that you gain experience for killing minions. Anyway, there has to be a way for every demigod to deal with minion builds, there is no way around it.

#6(Kitkun)
Creep strength: Afaik, the strong creeps are more then 2x, I dont know what the weak are. The gap between normal and strong is really huge, hence this suggestion. But you are right, this needs more testing.

Hex Scrolls: 500g is alot of cash, this must be almost a garanteed life saver to be worth the slot and money. I've never used this item, and I have never seen the effect on my DGs.

Artifact Consumables: In my opinion nobody will spend 1000g-1500g for a pot, it's just unrealistic. The Supreme Health Pot has a 3 second cast, so you might as well use a teleport. Also I believe teleport will become quicker (I think I read this in the journals).

Spit: The first level of Spit is fine. The problem is at level 4 (which takes maybe a few minutes) you get a 80% damage boost, which totals at 900 damage for only 30% more mana. I play alot of UB and most spit kills I get at this stage. The higher levels are fine, because you can more easily afford countermeasures by then.

Ice TB: I just realised that "Biting Chill" can also be consumed, which is another 325 damage.

#12(Daikaze)
Bramble Shield: I found the Bramble balance is fine mid and late game. The mana costs are quite low also, spit costs more for example. The problem here is merely the first bramble.

#32(Kitkun)
Artifacts: The ideas behind the artifacts are as follows: Most games, like 90% wont see these items anyway. Some are redundant, and therefore only the best price/effect item is bought: Unmaker will rarely be gotta because for 3000g more you get Ashkandor and Bracelet of Rage are superior I suppose. So for less effect this item is now available for 10000g already, which makes it more interesting, closing the gap between Mageslayer and Ashkandor (which I nerfed to 3x, because its just crazy). The price of some other rarely used artifacts were also reduced, because nobody will get them otherwise.

Artifact Consumables: I'd be really interested to know. Who uses these? I suppose almost nobody. Might get more useful if HoL gets nerfed.

[Blade of the Serpent] Mana gain only on auto-attacks would make this item almost worthless for example for TB, Erebus and several builds I guess.

sedna's pounce needs to be nerfed, its way too strong for being on a support dg ( weakness: limited burst ...yeaaaaa ok....)

and parasite egg doesnt need to be buffed in damage to minions %. Its very high as it is, you can kill all their minions in a couple of hits. Its pretty good. And i dont think the gold should be reduced bellow 4k.

Edit: And Rooks towers need to be fixed too, less damage...more longetivity and/or durability if you want. But their damage definetly needs to get tuned down.

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wow,if this ideas will be made the game would be almost perfect,and change the friends list so we can talk and invite one user from friend list to my game,and add the replay system!

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I disagree with making Parasite Egg more affordable. Minions are already grossly underused because they offer very little flexibility in any build for them, requiring both signinifcant ability points and gold to get them to a decent level. Overall Minions are fairly useless, or at least that is general consensus. Making Parasite egg even cheaper makes it an easy choice as soon as you notice someone going a minion build, effectively rendering the build completely useless instantly, and now with the minion build already in progress the player has no choice but to die constantly for the rest of the game.

There is already a plethora of AoE attacks, and cleave to battle against swarms of minions, the last thing minions in their current state needs is parasite egg to be even cheaper.

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With that said, i also believe the price for parasite egg shouldnt be changed. Its fine the way it is.

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https://forums.demigodthegame.com/347124

1k is limited burst.

Sedna has no other offensive capabilities except auto-attack. I'm not going to include yetis.

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- Fix cooldown increase bug (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/347124)

Actually that thread is wrong. Deep Freeze will also makes any ability you used recently unusable, depending on the cooldown for that ability and how long ago you used it. Ex: Use an ability, wait for the cooldown to finish. Get hit with deep freeze immediately after. You can't use the ability now.

- Change creep strength to 1x, 2x and 4x (weaker creeps then normal aren't needed)

Some people like it that way, plus (Assuming 2x is current high strength) 4x would make the earlier creeps more than half as powerful as a low level Demigod each. Giants would have over 6K HP.

--- [Hex Scroll] Reduce cost to 250-300g or change effect to 40-45%

25% damage reduction isn't worth 500g?

- Artifact Consumable
--- [Enhanced Health Potion] 1000->800g
--- [Enhanced Mana Potion] 1000->600g
--- [Revitalization Elixir] 1000->900g
--- [Enhanced Health Potion] 1500->1200g
--- [Enhanced Mana Potion] 1500->900g
--- [Revitalization Elixir] 1500->1350g

Don't agree with this. The artifact consumables are much stronger than normal ones at the same cast time. Healing over 2000 health in combat is very useful.

Unclean Beast
-Venom Spit II, 800->700 damage over 10s (a bit too good for level 4)
-Venom Spit II, 1150->1050 damage over 10s
-Venom Spit II, 1500->1400 damage over 10s, 150->200 damage instant

I'm more for it being reduced 50 per level and/or not stacking with itself.

- Deep Freeze I, 100->150 damage per effect consumed
- Deep Freeze I, 175->250 damage per effect consumed
- Deep Freeze I, 250->350 damage per effect consumed
- Deep Freeze I, 325->450 damage per effect consumed
- Fire and Ice, 100->150 damage to deep freeze

No. This is as bad as Beta 3. Fire TB can reliably do 2150 damage. This would enable Ice TB to do 2400 damage, stun for two seconds, give large attack and movement debuffs, interrupt, and lock out recharging and recently used skills.

Other than that, seems fine.

Edit:

sedna's pounce needs to be nerfed, its way too strong for being on a support dg ( weakness: limited burst ...yeaaaaa ok....)

Sedna is already weak on damage. It's not like any of the other Demis have no comparable skill.

Plus I don't have enough experience with Parasite Egg to comment on that.

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Quoting germ0nik,

reply 5

https://forums.demigodthegame.com/347124

1k is limited burst.

Sedna has no other offensive capabilities except auto-attack. I'm not going to include yetis.

1k is not, wow lol, limited burst. Fireball hits that much, snipe hits that much, bite hits lower. Its only 7 seconds cooldown too ( and you can make it much lower than that ). Her attack speed is pretty decent, and her survival skill is unmatched. Her pounce shouldnt be that strong imo.

Penitence lv 1: 200 (Weakness: limited burst damage )
Pounce lv1 : 400 (Weakness: limited burst damage )

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Penitence lv 1: 200 (Weakness: limited burst damage )
Pounce lv1 : 400 (Weakness: limited burst damage )

Penitence is also ranged, slows, interrupts like pounce, and increases damage from everything else in the game. It's also even harder to interrupt than pounce.

Fireball has extremely low mana cost, ranged, and can get up to 1350 damage.

Snipe has a 90 yard range.

Bite also heals, slows and applies an armor reduction.

Incidentally, TB bursts for over 2K reliably.

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Quoting ferm1nc,

reply 7

Quoting germ0nik, reply 5
https://forums.demigodthegame.com/347124

1k is limited burst.

Sedna has no other offensive capabilities except auto-attack. I'm not going to include yetis.

1k is not, wow lol, limited burst. Fireball hits that much, snipe hits that much, bite hits lower. Its only 7 seconds cooldown too ( and you can make it much lower than that ). Her attack speed is pretty decent, and her survival skill is unmatched. Her pounce shouldnt be that strong imo.

Penitence lv 1: 200 (Weakness: limited burst damage )

Pounce lv1 : 400 (Weakness: limited burst damage )

I'll say it again, 1k is limited burst.

What makes a fire TB bursty is fireball in combination with with a well placed circle of fire/fire nova.

If you can't compensate for a 1k damage spike with no other ability damage by the time Sedna has Pounce IV it is most likely you who is playing the game incorrectly.

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Oh come on ppl, we are talking about burst damage. I know all of those skills got their side effects and all but its damage what matters in this matter.

Sedna along with QOT are supposed to be the assist DG, and sedna having that pounce that hits that strong its just wrong.

I play sedna A LOT, and i feel that its just way too strong

**If you can't compensate for a 1k damage spike with no other ability damage by the time Sedna has Pounce IV it is most likely you who is playing the game incorrectly.

We are talking about a pounce every 6 seconds or less by now, on an unstopable healing machine.

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Quoting ferm1nc,

reply 4

UhelligGudn, the only real minion user is the QOT....and its evident that she needs a buff. All the other generals play more like an assasin and buying minions is no more than a buff that they have. Minions are not useless.

With that said, i also believe the price for parasite egg shouldnt be changed. Its fine the way it is.

I personally use Minions with Erebus as my primary build (at the moment anyway), it gets Erebus to some rediculous levels of DPS, you can push towers quickly, and most people are completely caught off guard as their health vanishes when my minions surround them I didn't mean that they are useless overall, both erebus and oak can have reasonable Minion builds, but both Sedna and QoT have pathetic Minions.

Regardless, playing with minions basically requires a complete strategy focused on minions. Totally different skills, totally different items, to offer such an easy counter such as Parasite Egg so cheaply would quickly make current minion builds basically useless as as soon as you saw little nightwalkers poping around you'd buy one. $3500 isn't much, especially mid-gameish, and you could earn it back in 2-3 kills easily because once you eat through the minions, there isn't much left.

There needs to be a counter to minions, and there are plenty, AoE, Cleave, QoT and Regulus both have splash damage on their auto attacks (Regulus needs Angelic Fury of course), UB has his corpse explosion which is basically splash damage, not to mention plague and such. There is plenty of abilities to counter minion builds already, there is no real reason to make Parasite Egg even cheaper.

Also as far as I can tell, Parasite Egg transfers 100% of damage to minions, not a percent of it, 100%. Even fully buffed minions have maybe 1500HP at most, hitting ALL of them at once, regardless of how close they are, is a bloody powerful counter and should be expensive to suggest as such. If someone has a demigod without such a natural counter, and is having a really hard time against a good minion player, they can choose to invest in the parasite egg.

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- Bramble Shield I, 700->600 (too strong at Lvl 1)
- Bramble Shield II, 950->900
- Bramble Shield III, 1200->1200
- Bramble Shield IV, 1450->1500

Yes, I agree that it needs a fix early on, but your suggestions for levels 3 and 4 of bramble shield don't fix the scaling problem. As the game goes on everyone deals more damage and so the shield becomes a small buffer. Your suggestion only makes the shield scale like Sedna's heal (which was likely your intention) except the sheild costs more mana and the shield does not gain the added benefits of:

cleansing negative effects (III)
damage to nearby enemies.(IV)
Stacking/Recast: The recast times are the same, but QoT can only have one shield up at any given time while Sedna could simply heal them again, or heal another, when the cooldown is up.

You should add: Fix Shamblers. They are just as bad as Yetis, except the QoT can invest in an additional ability to turn one into a health potion. My thoughts on the fix are simple: Double the max amount of Shamblers/Yetis allowed and summoned.

Mulch: It'd be nice if I could mulch the Shambler for a % of its current HP. This would make +minion health items very useful for her.

Uproot:

Remove "Violent Siege" and add that aspect to the entire line.
Increase the damage + lower the mana cost + decrease the cooldown
Or, allow for it to have some effect on opposing demigods. Make it a DoT that harms Demigods and does increased damage versus structures.

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I am not sure on the 100% the egg transfers, i took it for granted when the OP said it. Personally, i dont think a counter is needed besides the DG skill counters (angelic fury, aoes, ooze) but if there needs to be one, then i suppose 5k is fine

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Oh come on ppl, we are talking about burst damage. I know all of those skills got their side effects and all but its damage what matters in this matter.

Sedna along with QOT are supposed to be the assist DG, and sedna having that pounce that hits that strong its just wrong.

I play sedna A LOT, and i feel that its just way too strong

Discounting the other effects of a skill for any reason is just bad and wrong. Just about any other DG can do damage more reliably than Sedna.

Your suggestion only makes the shield scale like Sedna's heal (which was likely your intention) except the sheild costs more mana and the shield does not gain the added benefits of:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

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About Minion Builds

I faced some really badass minion Oaks before with my regulus (and I'm a rather decent regulus player). But I still got completly owned. On larger maps this might be less of an issue, but on PRISON for example, which is all in the open, it's some really hard playing. Let's assume we play without favor.

If we assume that at level 4 the Oak has 5 spirits[II], 2 monks[I], 2 archers[I], 2 minos[I] and also moral II... so you have...

184 dps from Oak

105 dps from spirits (800 hp)
52 dps from monks + healing (820 hp)
39 dps from archers (775 hp)
33 dps from minotaurs (910 hp)
229 dps from minions --> squishy regulus dead in 9 secs.

Now this can be reduced by armor, but also buffed later on by Surge of Faith and Pestilence. This is easily around 300-350 dps, and it only gets worse. The Oak can farm the lane while the minions harass the opponent with 150-200 dps. I can't do this, because I suck at the micro management, but a good Oak player can pull this off.

The question is, how will you counter this with a 5000g item... which you will probably NEVER have, because you cant get near flags without dying.

stat source: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pmbS09ByNPGE-hT1mq5_XBQ

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-- [Wings of the Seraphim] 2s cast, damage will not break the effect!

Oh god you are funny. What makes you think allowing any Demigod in the game to recover 2k hp mid-battle is ok? In the beta we had this without the 2s cast, and it was a complete OP joke.

Some of these changes are good, some of these are not.

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Quoting ferm1nc,

reply 10

Sedna along with QOT are supposed to be the assist DG, and sedna having that pounce that hits that strong its just wrong.

Who says that? You?

Your whole argument is based on the false assumption that Sedna (and Qot) are supposed to be support DGs. They're not.

Sedna makes for a mediocre support DG and I don't see why her attack capabilities should be taken away just because you have a different style of play in mind for her.

Tbh I doubt any DG was designed to be reduced to the role of supporting other DGs.

If you want to play her like that, sure, go ahead, but don't call for nerfs of her only attack skill because it doesn't fit into your play style or "intended role" for her.

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Quoting SThaler,

reply 17

Quoting ferm1nc,
reply 10

Sedna along with QOT are supposed to be the assist DG, and sedna having that pounce that hits that strong its just wrong.

Who says that? You?

Your whole argument is based on the false assumption that Sedna (and Qot) are supposed to be support DGs. They're not.

Sedna makes for a mediocre support DG and I don't see why her attack capabilities should be taken away just because you have a different style of play in mind for her.

Tbh I doubt any DG was designed to be reduced to the role of supporting other DGs.

If you want to play her like that, sure, go ahead, but don't call for nerfs of her only attack skill because it doesn't fit into your play style or "intended role" for her.

No, they are not only supposed to be assisting other demigods...but they are, indeed, assists'ers. Its wrong to have sedna being able to take more damage than any other demigod in quick succession, deal a very high amount of damage and then being able to heal other demigods.

I never said her attack capabilities should be taken away, i never said it was gonna be so nerfed that it was to be reduced to only supporting other DGs............u see what i did there? taking your whole argument out of context? awesome huh?

I just said, she should deal less damage than the huge bursty pounce she has.

And no, no other Demigod can deal damage as reliably as Sedna...at least not when it comes to huge damage. Any other DG would fear of his HP. A tb spikes and dies, same with regulus. Rook...LOL ( except towers ) , LOL with QOT too, and even so....with decent matchups like beast or oak....you can run to a tower....heal...and come back doing retarded dps.

I honestly cant believe you guys actually think pounce its alright...

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Quoting dgl-DalzK,

reply 16

-- [Wings of the Seraphim] 2s cast, damage will not break the effect!
Oh god you are funny. What makes you think allowing any Demigod in the game to recover 2k hp mid-battle is ok? In the beta we had this without the 2s cast, and it was a complete OP joke.

Some of these changes are good, some of these are not.

Ok, changed that... would be too OP I guess. Any other ideas what to do, I can't imagine this favor item is used by many right now.

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Quoting ntropy,

reply 15

About Minion Builds

I faced some really badass minion Oaks before with my regulus (and I'm a rather decent regulus player). But I still got completly owned. On larger maps this might be less of an issue, but on PRISON for example, which is all in the open, it's some really hard playing. Let's assume we play without favor.

If we assume that at level 4 the Oak has 5 spirits[II], 2 monks[I], 2 archers[I], 2 minos[I] and also moral II... so you have...

184 dps from Oak

105 dps from spirits (800 hp)
52 dps from monks + healing (820 hp)
39 dps from archers (775 hp)
33 dps from minotaurs (910 hp)
229 dps from minions --> squishy regulus dead in 9 secs.

Now this can be reduced by armor, but also buffed later on by Surge of Faith and Pestilence. This is easily around 300-350 dps, and it only gets worse. The Oak can farm the lane while the minions harass the opponent with 150-200 dps. I can't do this, because I suck at the micro management, but a good Oak player can pull this off.

The question is, how will you counter this with a 5000g item... which you will probably NEVER have, because you cant get near flags without dying.

stat source: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pmbS09ByNPGE-hT1mq5_XBQ

By the time his minion build reaches full effect, and its in for some serious business.....you SHOULD have enough to buy that....plus, even if it takes a lot, when you do its GG

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#1(ferm1nc)
If you face a minion using general you will most likely be annilated before you even have 5000g

U make it sound like the build is ridiculously overpowered. If you dont have a built in counter, you attack another DG...let one of your teamates handle it...and even so, it really its not that bad. If you are desperate, do the buy/sell minion trick if you are a general. Minions cost a lot of gold to purchase so its not gonna be that early of a push.

With that said, i dont mind 4500g nor 5000. I believe you had like 3500 before...and thats why i argued. Seems like you changed it.

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I was talking about 1v1

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Okay, I phrased that horribly. What I meant was that Sedna has no option to force an enemy to fight when they do not want to. She is the only dg without a stun or a slow. Plus, all three of the other Generals have abilities that increase the damage an opponent takes from your allies while Sedna does not. Partly why you almost never see Yetis online.

The other thing is the Sedna has no effective AoE for anything. Heal IV doesn't even knock down minotaurs, and when Giants come out, she has no option other than to cap the portal. Sedna has only single target damage, and all the spells she has except for Pounce are defensive. She has no other option for offense.

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She has a passive speed increase, which is really enough to get any DG ( xcept beast i guess) and her dps is pretty good ( demigoddb.com is down, cant really check...but i could swear her dps is better than some )

Artifact aoe'er bracelet of health thingy for aoe is pretty sexy. But then again, the problem is burst...is not her lack of w/e she lacks for. Even if her attack doesnt have everyone's desired effects it doesnt change the fact that the damage of it its too high.

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She has a passive speed increase, which is really enough to get any DG

That's not going to help her prevent them from getting to towers which will drive you off. Nor will it help allies get to them fast enough to help kill them.

her dps is pretty good ( demigoddb.com is down, cant really check...but i could swear her dps is better than some )

All the ranged characters have a similar DPS, while all the melee characters have a similar DPS.

Ranged: 89-95@lvl1 271-292@lvl20

Melee: 104-121@lvl1 (Sedna is the 104) 290-327@lvl20 (Sedna is 291)

Artifact aoe'er bracelet of health thingy for aoe is pretty sexy.

Eh, nifty, but still doesn't do much against minions and giants.

But then again, the problem is burst...is not her lack of w/e she lacks for. Even if her attack doesnt have everyone's desired effects it doesnt change the fact that the damage of it its too high.

You cannot balance this way without ending up with a stale, one character game. Penitence does 800 damage at max level. Fully 200 damage less. But, it slows the target and increases all (Including spell) damage taken by 16%. Unless the enemy is well into their base already (Since Penitence is ranged, it wins out there too) you're practically guaranteed to do more damage then Pounce. Give me Penitence over Pounce any day.

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Bugs and Balancing for v1.2+ (updated)

ntropy